tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post2402643474405901817..comments2023-11-19T11:53:26.322+00:00Comments on Michaels Bookshop Ramsgate Kent: Wynard Park email TDC councillors about The Manston Airport Site and some sort of rambleMichael Childhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09499435016469020417noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-43775837520132539652014-12-17T14:50:44.225+00:002014-12-17T14:50:44.225+00:00I wonder why the submission from Riveroak was made...I wonder why the submission from Riveroak was made so confidential that their own supporters of the Council were unable to see it. What have they got to hide?God help ushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12726756701964575422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-12881735260474849222014-12-17T09:48:36.263+00:002014-12-17T09:48:36.263+00:00Looks like the children were allowed out last nigh...Looks like the children were allowed out last night without supervision. Don't these councillors ever learn from the LGA Peers report that said that TDC and its councillors have to improve their image and endear themselves to the public. <br />Since Riveroak insisted on confidentiality of its finances only the council officers and the cabinet would have been in a position to determine whether their proposal for a CPO was without any risk of local tax payers money. <br />Riveroak are now submitting details to the government and I wonder if this submission will be identical to the one put before TDC.<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-87951981264661737732014-12-17T09:02:54.454+00:002014-12-17T09:02:54.454+00:00YesYesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-61631943938143262872014-12-16T21:44:43.486+00:002014-12-16T21:44:43.486+00:00A strange comment anon 20:04
No-one can guarantee...A strange comment anon 20:04<br /><br />No-one can guarantee what Riveroak's ultimate ambitions might be, but they are making some effort, so let's back them the hilt?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-64072936380049109642014-12-16T20:16:35.347+00:002014-12-16T20:16:35.347+00:00Tonight's council meeting was a complete farce...Tonight's council meeting was a complete farce. The agenda published on TDC's web-site said that all councillors would be allowed to give their opinion about the airport. But the agenda seems to have been changed at the last minute. Maybe DeNardo and Yerrall were told about this and that's why they didn't come. The other explanation may be that TDC has received advice that they've got to stop banging on about the CPO as it's undermining confidence in the area.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-10715881005507057352014-12-16T20:04:14.192+00:002014-12-16T20:04:14.192+00:00Guarantee? no-one can guarantee anything (except b...Guarantee? no-one can guarantee anything (except by the kind of ruthless destruction wrought at Manston for £1), but at least River Oak were making the effort, presumably with some kind of forfeit covered by a cpo. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-31646921626083315192014-12-16T18:59:16.952+00:002014-12-16T18:59:16.952+00:00Anon monday 18.26 Roger Gale is just playing for t...Anon monday 18.26 Roger Gale is just playing for time, at least until next years election.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-37607878698850776982014-12-16T16:59:51.429+00:002014-12-16T16:59:51.429+00:00What are the guarantees that Riveroak won't do...What are the guarantees that Riveroak won't do just the same?<br /><br />They don't think they need any more than a 5 year business plan, and despite saying they have £100 million in business lined up, there is no sign of this business backing them up.<br /><br />Just doesn't make sense to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-19117998164816731132014-12-16T14:59:20.929+00:002014-12-16T14:59:20.929+00:00River Oak's proposal at least kept an airport!...River Oak's proposal at least kept an airport! Suddenly Discovery Park hasn't enough commercial space? In Oct 2013 (dover-express.co.uk) DP "owners admitted they have been struggling to find clients" & DP survival was "on a knife edge" so argued for the 500 homes, large retail (+340 car-park) etc. In getting that outline planning permission from Dover CC they changed from commercial and massively increased their asset value. (with the usual can't afford affordable homes or school funding). Same will apply to Manston. "Manufacturing"? oh yes? Then they find there's no demand, so will keep ratcheting up planning permission for more & more homes just to increase the asset value. It is different from Wynyards, DP is a Palmer Capital/Ray Palmer Joint Venture. DP owners would normally have been pressing for an airport. For example south-east businesses ("Gatwick Diamond") have been trying to expand Redhill grass airfield into a business airport/air-related commerce base. London City overcame last week's air traffic chaos quickly, whereas Gatwick & Heathrow were in chaos. There is good demand for safe efficient south east runways, it is only the planning potential that makes an airport unworkable. Even Boris dreams of using the land value of Heathrow!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-53407067634546591722014-12-16T12:29:48.472+00:002014-12-16T12:29:48.472+00:00But of course Riveroak aren't in it to make mo...<br />But of course Riveroak aren't in it to make money and just want to help the population of Thanet..... ?!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-80479835621403773662014-12-16T11:23:22.881+00:002014-12-16T11:23:22.881+00:00Musgrave & Cartner's email Track Record,Di...Musgrave & Cartner's email Track Record,Discovery Park, doesnt mention (kentnews.co.uk Nov 6 '14) Dover Council outline permission for 500 homes (without affordable homes or school funding) a 200 bed hotel large retail and petrol station on the DP site. This doesnt quite fit with "We have actually run out of space for large new buildings" but does fit with Discovery Park being a joint venture with Palmer Capital, whose focus is to increase asset value.<br />(palmercapital.co.uk venture capital/discovery park)<br />Mrs Gloag played a blinder when she chose to split Manston with Discovery Park operators. Discovery Park owners would normally leading the demand for a business airport! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-79512867035793943372014-12-16T09:54:50.579+00:002014-12-16T09:54:50.579+00:00So the saviours from the USA won't be there, b...So the saviours from the USA won't be there, but an advert in the Thanet Extra is going to save the day.<br /><br />Seems they are more interested in stirring up the misled locals into pressuring the council into a hasty decision rather than publicising nationally for the strategic importance of Manston.<br /><br /><br />"Supporters of Manston Airport 16 December 04:16 <br /><br />In a late change of plans Stephen DeNardo and George Yerrall will not be coming this evening as I was originally informed. However Tony Freudman and Niall Lawlor will be present. <br /><br />"Hi Ruth<br />The decision that George and Steve would not travel was taken only a few hours ago. <br />It's really about the effective deployment of resources. Remember that we are also putting together a comprehensive dossier for Minister Hayes, which has been occupying a great deal of executive time at Head Office all day, and is still going on, and which in many ways is now our top priority.<br /><br />Niall and I will represent RiverOak tomorrow. We shall be at the Council offices from 4 pm, available to talk to supporters and the media, and apparently able to talk informally to councillors after the meeting in the Leader's room. While we are doing that Steve and George will be hard at work at Head Office completing the dossier for Hayes, putting the finishing touches to our next ad in Thanet Extra and completing a set of FAQs which will appear on our website on Wednesday.<br /><br />I look forward to seeing you tomorrow.<br /><br />Kind Regards Tony"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-83390100015458638502014-12-15T21:43:45.296+00:002014-12-15T21:43:45.296+00:00Sorry, for being thick, but I really don't und...Sorry, for being thick, but I really don't understand what bold Sir Roger is doing. What on earth would be the point of undervaluing the site only for the whole deal to fall apart at a later stage when large amounts of time and money have been invested? Is this mad suggestion a reflection of how desperate he is, or has he got some Baldric-like cunning plan up his codpiece? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-31951228239035855002014-12-15T18:26:29.388+00:002014-12-15T18:26:29.388+00:00On the recent interview with Radio Kent (the link ...On the recent interview with Radio Kent (the link is on the Manston Pickle Facebook page) - if you scroll to almost the end, from 2.30 onwards, there is an interview with Roger Gale.<br /><br />In this interview, he offers a very high risk strategy, in which he seeks to grossly undervalue the value of the former airport site. Michael has already quite correctly warned us that the undervaluation of the site is one of our greatest dangers. In this interview, Roger Gale proposes that we go ahead with the CPO, on the basis that will cost only £2million. He says you do not have to worry about the rest of the expenditure until you get to the vesting stage. Then he goes on to value the land at £4million, on the basis that it is agricultural land, which it has not been for decades, and says it is worth no more than £10million, so nothing to worry about! Of course, if this strategy were followed, Thanet District Council would be ON the hook for compensation at market value, and we have already discussed the possibility of £700 million. I am concerned as a Thanet District Council council tax-payer, but perhaps Roger Gale is not worried as he does not live in Thanet! In this interview he continues to strongly support RiverOak, and if he continues pushing Government Ministers etc to support him in supporting this Company which makes money from property develment, people are bound to question why.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-81192566513811264262014-12-15T17:00:23.241+00:002014-12-15T17:00:23.241+00:00Anons, Barry I think the long term implications of...Anons, Barry I think the long term implications of the council using our money to mount expensive legal cases effectively gagging councillors which most councillors couldn’t afford to defend is worthy of a post of it’s own so I have put up a new post just about this issue. Michael Childhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09499435016469020417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-11402523187349815382014-12-15T16:31:32.157+00:002014-12-15T16:31:32.157+00:00Anon the injunction was against publishing the doc...Anon the injunction was against publishing the documents into the public arena not about their removal from TDC offices. In fact the judge wondered why officers had refused to allow a councillor to remove them seeing as councillors do not have an office in TDC's building and all, in theory, work from homeGod help ushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12726756701964575422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-17270175021390300412014-12-15T10:33:23.989+00:002014-12-15T10:33:23.989+00:00Anon at 01:50
Cllr Driver has not been sued. He ...Anon at 01:50<br /><br />Cllr Driver has not been sued. He decided to appeal an injunction taken out against him, and he lost, so costs were awarded against him. This is quite normal, and Cllr Driver has not been singled out for any special treatment. <br /><br />In fact, by choosing to go to the High Court and by losing his appeal, Cllr Driver showed that he was in the wrong when he chose to take confidential documents from the building - this is not the opinion of any TDC Councillor, or TDC Officer, this is the opinion of a High Court Judge. Only the most rabid conspiracy theorist could think that a High Court Judge is somehow involved in a plot to oust Cllr Driver from elected office. If that's what you believe, then good luck to you - nothing that I, or anyone else, can write will change your mind.<br /><br />I'm sad that Cllr Driver has been put in this position - it must have been a shock to find out the amount of costs against him - but he does bear some culpability here. He knew when he was elected that he would be bound to abide by the Council's rules, and this he chose not to do. If he disagreed with the decisions made, then as a Councillor he should have used the correct avenues to challenge the decision. Some kind of Keystone Kops chase through Hawley Square followed by what has proved to be an expensive court case is not the way to do it.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-26448987913292195832014-12-14T01:50:24.482+00:002014-12-14T01:50:24.482+00:00Why hasn't Iris spoken out about Driver being ...Why hasn't Iris spoken out about Driver being sued or the other councillors lining up to support him? Did they agree the court action? What if they get sued in future?<br /><br />Driver should sue the council staff for harrassment in his public duties - and sue the organisation and the staff personally..<br /><br />After all no councillor approved making the documents secret did they?....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-72531948123442191372014-12-13T21:20:59.068+00:002014-12-13T21:20:59.068+00:00Anon at 18.36 I guess we keep coming back to the p...Anon at 18.36 I guess we keep coming back to the problems associated with fulfilling the criteria of an acceptable indemnity partner, which is very difficult to judge without having some track record, which RiverOak just don’t seem to have. <br /><br />As far as I can see what RiverOak have done in the past is to invest relatively small amounts of money for other people in housing, office and medical centre developments, RiverOak basically just being about six people working from a small office. <br /><br />Their commercial activity never seems to have reached a level where the media took much of an interest.<br /><br />They are not registered with the US Securities and Exchange Commission so anyone wishing to invest with them has to fill out an exemption form.<br /><br />If you look at the part of their website directed at investors you will see what I mean http://www.riveroakic.com/html/aboutRiverOak.html <br /><br />Having spent a fair amount of time looking at what other councils required from indemnity partners I just don’t see any way that a small American fund management company could fulfil the basic requirements.<br /><br />The company they set up to deal with TDC is a Delaware LLC I recommend you google “Delaware LLC” <br /><br />I guess if RiverOak had a UK company that had at least three years track record with a few hundred million pounds at its disposal then the council would have been able to justify using them as an indemnity partner.<br /><br />Anon 20.37 I don’t think the council can vote to overturn the cabinet decision, the council haven’t set up to decide whether or not start cpo proceedings, what they did was ask the council officers to advertise for an indemnity partner that fulfilled the basic requirements and none could be found.<br /><br />The only candidate didn’t have the qualifications, I can’t realistically see that the only other large group in the council, the Conservatives, would want to pursue a course of trying to force the council to go against officers advice.<br /><br />I know the conservatives went against officer advice with Pleasurama, but in that case officers put it to the cabinet as an option, there is also the problem of councillors liability if things go wrong.<br /><br />The council have just set a completely new president with Ian Driver of claiming £20k for his going against officers wishes, so it must be in some councillors minds that officers may do this to them, should the whim take them. <br /><br />As for RiverOak’s top brass flying over, I would doubt this, perhaps the are considering some sort of legal battle with the council. I guess the most off the wall part of all this is RiverOak saying they have already spent £600k on this unlikely fiasco, if they have just imagine what it would cost them to get though the whole cpo process. <br />Michael Childhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09499435016469020417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-73161480682029579722014-12-13T21:18:24.848+00:002014-12-13T21:18:24.848+00:00Anon 20:37 - compared with the 100s of millions th...Anon 20:37 - compared with the 100s of millions that they think they can probably achieve when their 'plans' fail and they can build houses there, a few flights from the USA are peanuts...<br /><br />Maybe like the last visit, it is more to do with Canary Wharf and Manston is just an aside?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-33951261908861342262014-12-13T20:37:02.765+00:002014-12-13T20:37:02.765+00:00Can anyone explain why Riveroak's top brass ar...Can anyone explain why Riveroak's top brass are all flying over for Tuesday's council meeting? These guys don't travel coach. With accommodation etc.it must be costing the company £20,000. No company could justify this kind of expenditure just to observe an inconsequential council meeting. There has to be something else going on. Have they got a meeting booked with any government minister? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-14172309529658917132014-12-13T18:36:56.151+00:002014-12-13T18:36:56.151+00:00Michael
As the US doesn't then I would expect ...Michael<br />As the US doesn't then I would expect that RiverOak would need a UK registered company to open a bank account in order to hold the money required for the CPO - there is nothing unusual about this.<br /><br />There have been comments in several places about the two businesses but nothing unusual for UK companies to do exactly the same thing - start looking at the company structures of everyday company names and you would see a whole multi-layered group of registered businesses reporting to a core business (or holding company).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-32245772588931223322014-12-13T14:31:57.633+00:002014-12-13T14:31:57.633+00:00What is difficult to understand with all the polit...What is difficult to understand with all the politicking going on is why all the supporters of Manston seem to be taking the word of Riveroak as gospel. They have no track record in the CPO process in the UK and it is more than likely they are being manipulated by vested interests as much as the supporters. Why oh why do they (the supporters) not get some cast iron guarantees from the money men as it will be far too late if the CPO is given the go ahead and it goes pear shaped. SFP offered guarantees that were as useful as a chocolate fireguard yet the Tory administration had a leap of faith and we still have a building site on Ramsgate SeafrontGod help ushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12726756701964575422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-30613036801667211982014-12-13T13:40:05.255+00:002014-12-13T13:40:05.255+00:00Anon 9.18 being in business and supplying books to...Anon 9.18 being in business and supplying books to other businesses on credit I guess I have got so used to spotting incongruities which would make me think twice before extending credit to another business that I am inclined to forget that a lot of other people don’t do this. <br /><br />American companies don’t have MDs rather in the same way that America doesn’t have a queen, by this I mean if you get invited to an event where the Queen of England or the President of America is going to present then you put on your best bib and tucker, however if you get invited to an event where the Queen of America or the President of England is going to be present then you would expect something comical. <br /><br />But however you look at this thing what it is really all about is financial risk, so that if the council does business with a company and that company don’t pay up in the way they say they will then the council loses that money and as a Thanet taxpayer (business rates and council tax) then I am one of the people who pays, either in money or through reduced services. <br /><br />Nowadays if I am going to extend credit to a company then the first thing I do is look that company up on google using the full name of that company in quotation marks like so: “RiverOak Investment Corp” if that company has been trading for a few years in any significant way I would expect thousands of pages to come up containing thousands of results. The search for “RiverOak Investment Corp” brings up 114 results while the search for "michaels bookshop" brings up 7,500, "Wynyard Park" brings up 97,500 results, the last business I extended credit to "st peters village shop" brings up 12,000 results.<br />Michael Childhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09499435016469020417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9098852996443963948.post-79784884177714077902014-12-13T13:27:08.245+00:002014-12-13T13:27:08.245+00:00I think Anon of 09.20 makes an excellent point, wh...I think Anon of 09.20 makes an excellent point, which demonstrates the opportunistic and unprincipled approach of far too many politicians.<br /><br />Personally, I would like to have seen a flourishing airport, but I accepted it was a lost cause some years ago. Tory politicians like Gale promote the private sector yet seem to have ignored the failure of a succession of private companies to make the airport viable. Curious.<br /><br />Gale continually refers to his meetings with Government Ministers and their support for his campaign. But where has any Minister spoken out publicly in support of the airport and indeed the CPO? What practical support has Government offered to try to keep Manston afloat?<br /><br />On the countrary, prominent Tories, such as KCC leader Carter, have been queing up to support alternative uses for the site, which signals that Gale and his immediate team are alone even within their own Party. <br /><br />Gale will inevitably, and cynically, blame the Labour TDC for the CPO outcome. He will seek to score political points rather than contribute to the wellbeing and future of the area. He will blame others for his own personal failure to deliver - again. Even his position on night flights varied according to which Party was in power locally.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com